Another one bites the dust at VAM....

[Valkyrie_1520]

Alex and I were out flying last Saturday at VAM. We were flying a Tiger Cub by TT. It's been on the wall for a while so we decided to upgrade the receiver from the AR500 to an AR6200 after Drew's Tiger went in a couple of weeks ago. All was going well until the 2nd flight and the radio glitched for a second. It lost power for a second and moved to the right but came right back. Alex powered up and climbed for a bit then the engine decided to die. He was on approach from the east and the plane glitched yet again in the same place that Drew lost his plane. Alex again regained control for about 2 seconds then the plane glitched again and rolled over hard to the left. There was no saving it this time. It ended up broken and battered about 40' up in a tree.

Alex and I called Scott B and Corey and they brought a fishing rod and several ropes but it was still no use. We spent about 3 hours trying to get it out but the wires were caught on a branch and there was no way it was coming out easily so we decided to just leave it where it was until we could get back out there. Sunday was my Mom's birthday so we could not make it out but Scott B and Corey went back out without us and were able to retrieve it. It took some time, a 24' ladder, lots of rope, a pole saw and a young man with nerves of steel to get the job done.

I have attached the pics but they do not do the tree justice. Scott B and Corey, dinner is on me!!!!!

Now, if we could just figure out what is eating all of the 2.4Ghz signal at VAM.... 

[bamabaxter]

This is why I don't fly there much any more.  Too many planes gone down....whenever I have my FPV stuff going, there is all kinds of interference with video and the 72MHz stuff......I flew at KCRC all weekend with no problems out to 1559 meters...yes almost a mile.  Zero glitches with all the FPV gear going and a good ole Futaba 148df Rx.  I think it is all the repeater towers all along the hills at VAM......

[Flying_fox]

Im sorry man 
 Wish I could have been there for the retrieval attempt at least, Im a bit nervous about flying there at this point. 

[Valkyrie_1520]

Thanks Drew, I wish I could have been there too!!! 

To be fair, I flew the Ultra Stik there quite a bit while we were waiting on Scott B and Corey and had no issues at all. It has an AR7000 in it and showed no glitches at all. I was flying with the same JR9303 transmitter that was also flying the Cub. I haven't caught up with Scott yet to get the receiver back but I plan on testing it further. It was BRAND NEW, sealed in the plastic with 1 flight on it. Another culprit that I plan on checking is the receiver battery.   

[gittarpikk]

Chris (club sect) has had a world of trouble out of Spectrum receivers...you may wish to corroborate data

Hated to see the Cub in that many pieces...

Ok... Let me add what I have found out... and have loads of air time experience to back up the data....with everything from Futaba receivers to Coronas, Airtronics....but not an Orange or a Spectrum

Since 2009 I have been flying there, I have noticed these anomalies

I fly on 72,  ch 16, 30, 44 and an HK cheapo on 2.4 (not frequency hopping)

Also flown is FPV on all types of antennas (you name it, I've probably flown it)

My FPV is always on 2.4 on either channel 10 (which is at the edge of the RC spectrum of 2.4) or on channel 4 (what the new 100 mw HK and Fat Shark transmitters are on)

I do have some 2.4 ghz interference on FPV when several transmitters are running at the same time. This is expected but it will not shut it down...but sure makes it hard to see well. I chose 2.4 on purpose because I liked the distance 72 mhz gives on the rc link (better than the 2.4 ghz...but not as good as ham band)

If I distance myself from the rc transmitters , I get a lot of relief especially if I am using a clover antenna which rejects anything but a circle polarized signal.

I have had a solid link out to over a mile...and choose not to go further simply because I can't stand the thought of having to pack up and go "plane-chasing" if it goes down.

In the areas I fly, if it goes down, I can simply "drive up" to the plane. Maybe this makes sense...maybe not.... but is what I prefer...and is closer to our AMA codes way of flying...but to each his own way of flying..

I too have had a glitch (just a glitch) in a certain area of the sky that represents about 1/3 of the way into the adjacent field to the SE (overfly area) at about 30-40 degree incline off the horizon. Several planes have had this same glitch..and several have gone down there. I have only had a glitch as I always have full control inside of 15 feet or so...

The only time my planes have went down were once when I had what I felt was deserved due to my lousy pick of battery connectors..(auto bullet) which can and will form a layer of carbon, warm up and then break circuit or "brown out"....splash one Slow Stick but only broke a prop.

Many, many people have flown all over the band at VAM and have had little trouble. Bill (a member there) verifies though that there >is< a problem on low 50's and high 40's and everyone has known about it....you just don't see anyone flying those freq's there.

The only other time I had interference was when always when I flew the video rat. It had a keyfob dvr and a micro 2.4 cam/transmitter as close as 1/4" from the 72 mhz antenna.

This was on a 4 ch Corona synth. At first I thought  it was a ragged shortened antenna (most of mine are ragged as I glue them down)...so I fixed that...nope...

I then changed receivers to a brand new one out of box... nope...

I then tried the esc....... nope

I would still go out 200' and it would go crazy

Having read a forum that describes the dvr keyfob  camera as possibly causing interference , I turned off the micro FPV cam on 2.4 ....nope

I turned off the dvr...bingo!!

For a while I did not trust the 72  band as I had some transmitter antenna failures/issues but fixed them and verified that 72 can go out anywhere from 1 mile to 5-6 depending on conditions.I verified it went out a mile on FPV...and it suites me....just that little troublesome glitch where I described

Now ALL that to state this.

I listed my frequencies and equipment (lots of typing for me)...and have had little trouble...BUT  (donch'a just love that word) ..

Everyone has their own stuff, Trans/rec/freq, and flies in their own "usual" part of the sky .Some like to fly over those monster trees to the NE (100' PLUS average) with a swamp below. I just never go there... but you will probably never see nor hear of me climbing a tree ....unless I simply lose it all and it ends up there. .. but it probably will someday.(knocking on a balsa plank as I type)

Most people who have flown there for years and years will fly areas that are void of the kinds of problems I described above... (Plenty of air outside those areas) and they have had little trouble... but there has been a rash of crashes in a "certain" area (well outside the normal field overfly [statement does apply to new  FPV flying which venture further out]). Those who overfly the monster trees in the swamp (whether on purpose or accidentally) soon find that that area is not RC plane retrieval friendly and Bill (Bless his soul, who usually volunteers to go after them will tell you all manner of challenges he has come across and some that simply were impossible.

If you are on any of the frequency areas that I mentioned... may the "force be with you" as the loss can be and usually is >high<.

If you overfly the monster trees.... again, you will need the "force"... but this time a really ,really strong wind force as that is many times the >only< way you will get the plane down from those trees that seem to reach to the moon when your standing on a hillside or in the swamp from below them.

As for comparing with other fields... I guess if you are comparing the one with the mile of lake surrounding it ...and many "knob-mountains"...with very few houses... I can't see where there would be much RFI (radio frequency interference)...makes sense...but...try fetching a plane from a lake without a boat...or from that steep bluff at the end....and a fenced in water treatment plant at the other end.

Other fields , you can get stuck behind the railroad tracks for hours and it will happen when you really have to gooooo!.

Another ... you can simply take a whiff of the air ... or have to go through a locked gate on Sunday and find no one else cared enough to open the gate and attend...

But for a field that has been there for 40+ years, costs very little to join, convenient location,  has a really nice manicured grass runway almost always mowed perfect, great people and conversation  (c'ept me) and most areas of overfly you can simply drive in the field up to the crashed plane ...VAM has a lot to offer...and those trees are a fun challenge to stay low and slow just inside the field perimeter. I think its about time for some pylons and some serious foamie races.

[aston70]

You're not an official VAM member until you have fully experienced the trees... Welcome to the club.
 
Seriously though, I haven't had any glitches there myself that couldn't be explained as faulty radio gear and even that's been back when I first joined the club and I was using a junk radio. The only times (that I will admit) to have "landed" in the trees is once on the first day I flew there and second from a combat collision on a windy day.
 
The trouble Chris has with Spectrum receivers seems to have happened everywhere and not really isolated to VAM. He usually tells me the problem is from too low voltage or other things like ESC. I'm sure he could say more than I could, so I will not eloborate any further on his experience.
 
 

[Blue Note]

Battery voltage and proximity of the receiver to the battery and to the ESC have all combined to give me issues from time to time.  Most of my " equipment " problems have with "official" Spektrum brand receivers.  I've had a couple issues with the Orange 4CH park flyer receiver, but the 6CH has be rock solid...so far.

I landed in the trees the very first time I flew a nitro plane at VAM.  It didn't hurt it, so after checking it out and a change in the wind direction, I decided to give it another try.  The 2nd flight was ended abruptly by yet another tree reaching out and smacking my plane down.  It was in 5-6 pieces before it even hit the ground.  After that, I knew exactly where the trees were and have had no more occurrences and like having them there for depth perception practice.

[Kerbob]

I've flown at VAM three or four times now and I have been fortunate to be glitch free.  I almost got sucked in by the gravity of the trees at 2:20 in the video below.  I was flying with the wind giving it all the power and elevator she had and she wasn't going up; you can see my efforts in the vid. Just cleared it last moment. 

Easystar FPV with Dragonlink kit

I was talking to Valkyrie and Alex after the KCRC meeting tonight about the incident.  Alex won the "Crash of the Month" award of two bottles of super glue for the VAM crash (Congrats again!).  Anyway, the people at the club are great and the field is well maintained the times I've been.  Valkyrie was saying that the trees add the requirement of skill and the grass doesn't leave black skid marks on his wings.  Funny thing is.. I didn't even know the wings were supposed to touch the ground on a landing. 

Blue Note,
Thanks for the tip. That's a great way to learn tree distance at a new field. 

[Valkyrie_1520]

Yeah, I was in no way bashing VAM at all. VAM is by far my favorite field and I have no plans to quit flying there. I actually flew another plane for about an hour right after this plane went in and had no issues whatsoever. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward a bad receiver battery. The "glitches" did not match the brownout characteristics and were less than the 1-3 second reset times. It was an odd and tragic loss but I am just going to file it in the "$h!t happens" folder and move on.

 

Tim.

[Big Al]

For the ignorant, where is VAM and what are the yearly fees? I love a nice short grass field and really don't like the "carrier" at KCRC.

THanks
Alan

[bamabaxter]

http://www.volunteeraeromodelers.org/

Right off of Washington Pike just before Rita Elementary School.  $50/year

[Valkyrie_1520]

It should also be noted that while Alex won "Crash of the Month", had Drew been at the meeting both Alex and I would have voted for his crash. The sickening sound that the Tiger 2 made while filtering through the trees is one that will haunt me for a long time and may require therapy to get out of my head. 

[aston70]

@Alan... If you have never been a previous member at VAM, dues are prorated your first year. So right now dues would be $14 for the rest of the year. Additional family are less and anyone with a youth AMA is even less. It's all listed on the application, linked on the website bamabaxter posted.

[aston70]

Now that I think about it, I'm starting to recollect a certain Cub I once had that became a 'clipped wing' version after a certain tree incident... But it didn't land in the trees, it went all the way through. 
 
Of course the most spectacular, from what I've heard, was heli9's 35% extra that took a swamp nap.

[gittarpikk]

For the ignorant, where is VAM and what are the yearly fees? I love a nice short grass field and really don't like the "carrier" at KCRC.

THanks
Alan

go to this link and when you get to google maps...hit search... it should point out the runway...you can zoom then